Atlantic Wall prep

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MTierney
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Atlantic Wall prep

Post by MTierney » Thu Nov 27, 2014 2:23 pm

Dave, Tom, Dave, Lee, Rich,

I promised to start this thread to keep you abreast of progress as we begin play of Atlantic Wall. We are making good progress and almost finished with the Utah Beach sector. Here is a general outline of how that went. I will email you all photos once it is final.

The airborne drops went well as far as concentration but we don't really know for sure how many companies were lost. With the hidden counters for all units, we are not allowed to flip them even when they "die". There are a dozen "units" dead and another eight on the extended scatter table which may or may not return.

St Mer Eglise fell quickly when the German unit there failed it's PR check. There don't seem to be as many German units in this sector as in BfN but there are many more strongpoints which may be the difference. These are NOT easy to kill. One lesson learned: despite their high PR values, the airborne units don't do well attacking early. They need to form up and get support or suffer from low odds attacks against mediocre German units. The Germans suffer from limited reaction and most their strength away on the West of the peninsula. I like the way this system works in keeping the units that landed successfully in close proximity to the general area of their DZ's and the units that really drift go onto that separate track rather than on the map. Pretty clean way of handling this and the Germans are not chasing units twenty hexes from the DZ. Those units would have been hiding and avoiding contact.

The beach landing was easy here as there are only three weak German units to deal with. The USA lost the equivalent of one infantry and one tank company total. Pretty historic. The big problem was in beach congestion! The German player (Shawn) left two units partially blocking the exits and this caused huge traffic jams! The US did get all units landed by the end of the 6th, but they are all jammed within four or five hexes of the beach. The Airborne is on their own for the morning of the 7th.

We are going to finish the June 6th turns today and take pictures. I will email those to all. We will also take detailed pics of every sector so all units are exposed and we can use this to reset at the Fest. More to follow.

Merv

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Re: Atlantic Wall prep

Post by tombeach » Thu Nov 27, 2014 2:43 pm

Thanks, Merv. Will look forward to pics etc. Presume at this early stage the 6th FJ remains in firm control at and south of the Douve and Carentan and are entrenching? Do Germans still maintain control of the coast road to Cherbourg? I realize it's very early and these are probably way premature to be asking.

Also, has Shawn invoked rule AW 7.12.2 to possibly impede Allied landings?

Tom

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Re: Atlantic Wall prep

Post by MTierney » Fri Nov 28, 2014 11:49 pm

Tom,
To your questions. The 6th FJ is actually north of the river and building IP's. Solid line there. The Airborne bridgehead is about 7-8 hexes north of St Mer Eglise with German units forming faster than we are. This is definitely NOT like BfN in which the USA has units halfway to Cherbourg! This seems to get the airborne down in a much tighter area and that seems historical as they took control pretty quickly. I see this becoming static as the supply rules will actually force the 82Abn to PULL BACK closer to their airheads or be OOS on the 7th. The beach supply keeps both infantry division HQ next to the beach so they cannot reach out quickly either, waiting for a corps HQ to show up on the 8th. It is a face off as the Germans are not strong enough to break in and the USA too weak to break out! Interesting.

Shawn did move a unit into Utah beach and it died very quickly. A better tactic is to leave them just next to the beach as it may survive (it did) and cause huge bottlenecks.

I spent all afternoon yesterday going through the rules in detail (again!) to make sure we were not missing anything. Learned a lot about the normal turns to follow. The Strategic Map is a game unto itself! Corrected all the listed errors in the rules and charts (very sad those), and we discussed how we were going to coordinate all the various pieces here without being able to set up the entire thing at once. Have a plan.

After work today I spent three hours building many of the games displays into Excel. There must be at least a hundred markers for all the displays and while that would normally be great if you had a gymnasium to set it up, this will work better. I will send everyone copies via email once we play with them a little.

Hope to get back playing tomorrow. More latter.
Merv

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Re: Atlantic Wall prep

Post by DaveM1 » Sat Nov 29, 2014 2:09 pm

Merv:

Just getting ready to dive into that massive, massive rule book...and have to say I'm hoping it's worth it. Last week I spent 10 hours or so working through the rule book of an unfamiliar game, Virgin Queen, and it only had 44 pages. The combined rule set (GOSS + Atlantic Wall) has to be more than 150 pages of fine print!!

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Re: Atlantic Wall prep

Post by tombeach » Sat Nov 29, 2014 7:17 pm

Merv,

Thanks for the updates.

Yes, I have read the Logistics breakdowns by Amphibious, Corp and Army and their various stages of implementation several times now and took special note of how the beachhead/Corps hex makes advancing away from it very difficult and dicey. Naturally, as the Germans I like those rules! It's also nice to see both the airborne get easier, tighter landings as well as restrictions on forced movement toward their PSS which strikes me as historical on both sides of it.

Yes, I would expect the tactic I inquired about to have very little good affect. But I'm not disappointed Shawn tried it to see how it worked. My experience with Normandy, save for SPI's AW in the seventies, has been previously limited to Killing Ground/Overlord. But I recall the German's having their best shot at clogging the beaches by straddling them in TKG/OL instead of advancing upon them. So I'm not surprised to hear you say the same tactic seems to work best in AW as well. The other advantages I've gleaned from the rules are enticing but I figure probably mostly long shots.

About to tackle the Strat Map game so can't speak to it yet, although I expect you're right about a game unto itself.

Yes, you would think by third game they could at least call the C&T's the same thing they call them in the rules! Not to mention dual use of ADV (Ammo Depletion Value and Ammo Delivery Value!). That took me a long time to separate and keep straight.

I look forward to the corrections via Excel when you can make them available. Thanks.

As for the 6th, thanks for confirming IP activity. Yes, I understood they would be north of the Douves but was more curios to know if the rest of the 91st et al were still holding out on the northern branch as well? I expect your pictures will reveal.

Tom

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Re: Atlantic Wall prep

Post by MTierney » Sat Nov 29, 2014 11:40 pm

Tom,
We played all day except during the Ohio State/Michigan game and learned a lot. I sent all of you the pics of this game but don't read too much into them as we will probably reset this. Even though I don't feel we have made any major mistakes, we are going to redo just to make sure.

The Strategic Map game is really cool! I think it models things perfectly. The more I play this game the more impressed I am! The rules are a trip though. Joe posted more corrections on BGG and it took a LOT of effort the go through all the various points that had and other posts.

Dave,
I know how you don't like reading rules so I will warn you, this is very tough! You do know how to play the basic system so that helps, but if you are going to be an Allied player you will need to know the invasion stuff also. Things are flowing well enough here that I would not absolutely rule out starting from the beginning at the Fest. We will have to practice a lot more before we can call that, but this is starting to flow. Having said that, it took a hell of a lot of effort to get to this point!

Merv

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Re: Atlantic Wall prep

Post by tombeach » Sun Nov 30, 2014 2:32 am

Merv,

I am not at all opposed to starting at the fest. Additionally, if we do, it will inspire me to also play out the modules and follow along and incorporate your BGG notes etc. and actually learn a portion of the game we might not otherwise get to understand beforehand.

Tom

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Re: Atlantic Wall prep

Post by MTierney » Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:49 am

Tom,
I have a couple of questions that you may be able to help with (or anyone else who sees this).

You mentioned the ADV having two different functions. I don't get that. Can you elaborate?

I also am stumped by the following: The Naval Rules (no specific section of course) make no mention of ships ammo depleting, but on one of the charts is a naval depletion role of 4. That is the only place i see anything AND nothing about rolling to replenish. This makes no sense in that I thought ships fired only once a day. If they ammo deplete, that would lead one to believe that they fire each turn or why an ADV at all? Maybe I missed it but don't think so.

Take a look at the Ground Interdiction (on map). I love the mechanic he built, but it seems pretty Draconion even though i know it was hell for the Germans on those roads. Shawn moved a regiment of the 243rd down the road from the eastern Cotentin. The GI value was 5/8 allowing the German infantry to move five points before enduring their first attack. He moved them that sixth point to see what would happen. Two battalions received a Fatigue 1, and the third one took a step loss and Fatigue 2! We did NOT use the +1 mod for "moving on road" as we felt this was tactical movement (that still gains them the one movement for roads). The only roll that does not hurt the moving unit is a 0-3! Does that seem right or are we missing something? It does not say so but it seems like the weather rolls below the big table should apply to this GI Attack table.

If you couple the above with the Fatigue rule, it becomes very hard for the German to ever get an infantry division across the map. Again, having read some of the detailed history including the book about Pete Quesada and his efforts, I know this should happen. You may want to be sure you understand this aspect of the game and practice it alone. There are things the German can do; moving at night, not moving more that the GI value, but see what you think.

Merv

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Re: Atlantic Wall prep

Post by DaveM1 » Wed Dec 03, 2014 3:56 pm

33.4.6 Naval Gunfire Support
The Allied side has the use of one BB and one
CA. GOSS 11.9.0 applies with the following
exceptions:
• Each Naval unit is available once each GD (AM
or PM GT).
• Do not roll for ammo depletion

_________

34.4.6 Naval Units
The Allied Side has one BB, one CA, two CL, and
three DD available. GOSS 11.9.0 applies with the
following exceptions:
• Each Naval unit is available during each AM
and PM GT.
• Do not roll for Ammo Depletion
• Range is traced from any full sea hex.
• When atmospheric condition is Ovr all naval
units have a range of six hexes.
• If the Allied side allocates at least one DD
point to a German WN or StP with barrage
capabilities, that WN or StP FS mission
points are reduced to one for that GT

_______________


Found this using the PDF and search text for depletion. This kind of thing is a MAJOR advantage of digital rules!!

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Re: Atlantic Wall prep

Post by MTierney » Wed Dec 03, 2014 10:16 pm

Dave,
Your first example is from a scenario and not applicable to the campaign although it does refer to no depletion. Your second example 34.4.6 I do not see in the rule book, but that section is also a scenario. This still does not answer the question for us. It would APPEAR like naval units could fire in both AM and PM or why have a deplete roll. I suppose they could automatically reset for the following DAY if not the turn. No reference to what a replenishment roll might be.

Merv

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