Game Proposals

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tombeach
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Re: Game Proposals

Post by tombeach » Fri Dec 05, 2014 3:19 pm

Hi Ron,

Thank you very much for your insights and explanations of play. They are really very helpful. And as I said, I left the K2R experience with the intention of one day trying the system again.

I did spend several weeks playing the small scenarios solitaire as we worked up to the big game. And I was actually intrigued and excited about playing when I went into the campaign game. So I believe the system offers much. And it's true that we were all newbies with it. So I'm sure that didn't help our first experience with EFS.

I'm also quite willing to accept the notion of being on the metal end of the hammer in a game and willing to defend and make a fighting withdrawal. I admit that I am less intuitive when such losses are required as a part of one's plan. So that's all me. And I'm willing to always return and try again.

But the real killer for me in this system is the SOP and the intentional hamstringing of Russians to the degree that they simply cannot mount attacks exept where mandated. As I mentioned before, when Russians are required to move the Mech first, then attack, and then move their non-Mech, you are creating what may be historically accurate, but destroying the gaming experience. I just don't like the punitive SOP that is imposed on you as the Russians. And I think this is where EFS falls down. Dean has managed to create all the doctrinal shortcomings of Russians in a SOP that does not require such extreme measures. And I guess that's where I feel cheated by EFS.

I will indeed stop by your table and take a look and will look forward to your insights at work. Thanks for understanding my position and the offer to help me gain a better footing on the system for future consideration.

Tom

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Re: Game Proposals

Post by DaveM1 » Fri Dec 05, 2014 9:40 pm

So I'm starting on my copy of the GOSS/Atlantic Wall rule set......

Image

firefly17pdr
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Re: Game Proposals

Post by firefly17pdr » Sat Dec 06, 2014 9:57 pm

Hi Tom. Just read your notes regarding the difference in German and Soviet SOP. I understand your frustration. It was really co9nfusing for me at first, and I had a huge problem playing the Soviets. I understand the want or desire to mount "effect and balanced" attacks against the Axis. However, because of the uncoordinated nature of Soviet tactics, the system that Vance implemented seems to reflect this most effectively. I am sure that in game terms there will be a shift in the Soviet's ability to launch coordinated attacks. You can turn this disadvantage into an advantage if you want, and that is to plan attacks in advance by trying to keep your mech forces out of the line, and one or two hexes behind the line. Allow the Axis to close upon you. once they are sitting in your defensive ZOC's, when it is your turn, take your armor and crash into him. This way you will be able to use more of your infantry. Also - remember that Soviet HQ's can activate a quantity of non-mechanized units based on their ratings to move during the mechanized phase! This allows you to bring extra artillery and infantry into the fight. You can have effective counter-attacks using this method.

Once the Axis sees this happening, he will back off one hex so he will not be in contact with the Soviet main defensive line. This might mean pulling off of a river line or ceding good defensive terrain, and again the Soviet can counter-attack without having to worry about terrain effects. The attacks may be a bit smaller, but they can still be effective. Once you begin doing this and inflicting casualties, you will see the initiative begin to shift in your favor.

Preserve your armor, motorized infantry, artillery, flak, and HQ's!!

Best,
Ron :twisted:

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Re: Game Proposals

Post by firefly17pdr » Sat Dec 06, 2014 9:59 pm

Dave - OMG!! That is so funny!!

Ron :lol:

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Re: Game Proposals

Post by tombeach » Sun Dec 07, 2014 4:45 pm

Ron,

You bring out tactics I admit I or my Russian partner never grasped effectively or executed. I can see your point and how to effectively play the Russians. Frankly, I just might be too dense to learn EFS and play it well. But I'm willing to try again one day!

Tom

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Re: Game Proposals

Post by DaveM1 » Sun Dec 07, 2014 5:59 pm

firefly17pdr wrote:Hi Tom. Just read your notes regarding the difference in German and Soviet SOP. I understand your frustration. It was really co9nfusing for me at first, and I had a huge problem playing the Soviets. I understand the want or desire to mount "effect and balanced" attacks against the Axis. However, because of the uncoordinated nature of Soviet tactics, the system that Vance implemented seems to reflect this most effectively. I am sure that in game terms there will be a shift in the Soviet's ability to launch coordinated attacks. You can turn this disadvantage into an advantage if you want, and that is to plan attacks in advance by trying to keep your mech forces out of the line, and one or two hexes behind the line. Allow the Axis to close upon you. once they are sitting in your defensive ZOC's, when it is your turn, take your armor and crash into him. This way you will be able to use more of your infantry. Also - remember that Soviet HQ's can activate a quantity of non-mechanized units based on their ratings to move during the mechanized phase! This allows you to bring extra artillery and infantry into the fight. You can have effective counter-attacks using this method.

Once the Axis sees this happening, he will back off one hex so he will not be in contact with the Soviet main defensive line. This might mean pulling off of a river line or ceding good defensive terrain, and again the Soviet can counter-attack without having to worry about terrain effects. The attacks may be a bit smaller, but they can still be effective. Once you begin doing this and inflicting casualties, you will see the initiative begin to shift in your favor.

Preserve your armor, motorized infantry, artillery, flak, and HQ's!!

Best,
Ron :twisted:
Really good advice. I'll need to reread this next time I play EFS.

And the exchange highlights one of the downsides of trying a different game all the time - we never get to "figure it out" in a week. I strongly suspect that some of the systems we think are broken are just underexplored - especially in games that remain popular even when we think there are big problems.

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Re: Game Proposals

Post by kqrgcw » Sun Dec 07, 2014 10:40 pm

Ron,

If you have any tips for the Germans I would appreciate them. You can only go over the rules so many times. Thanks,

Roger

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Re: Game Proposals

Post by firefly17pdr » Mon Dec 08, 2014 5:21 am

Dave - Tom - please stop by the EFS game when ever you feel inclined. We can discuss rules, strategies, and tactics, and I hope to garner some interest from a few others that will be at Winterfest. We will have seats available if you want to push counters for a couple of turns, or something more permanent is also available, if you are so inclined. John and Todd are both excellent players as well, and I am sure they would be more than willing to sit with you and coach you or "train" you into some of the details of the game, especially the air rules and the naval rules. Learning to fight in the cities can also be daunting, but again - once you get the hang of it you'll see how much fun it can be. Its also a good learning experience!!

Best,
Ron

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Re: Game Proposals

Post by Madison » Sun Dec 14, 2014 1:45 pm

Roger,

I have a good tip for you, and no this isn't sarcasm:

EFS Lesson 101:

Mass your tanks, accept soak offs with breakdowns and smash forward and be willing to take losses. Push hard along your main rail/road/supply net and another flanking railnet your axis forces can use as periphery supply. Avoid the marsh with mobile units, it will be tempting to try to cut Soviets off be hooking around behind them, but once your in, you're easily ZOC'd in and it will be weeks to get out if you lose infiltration.

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Re: Game Proposals

Post by DaveM1 » Sun Dec 14, 2014 2:18 pm

NEW MASTER THREAD FOR UPDATING GAME PLANS

Because ideas have been spread all over this thread and the "Side Games" thread, I'M confused even if no one else is. To keep things clear there's a new thread specifically to keep track of who's planning what...and the first post has a list that I'll keep updated BASED ON WHAT'S POSTED IN THAT THREAD.

So once you've got at least a tentatively clear idea of what you'll be doing, make a post there. Everyone else can see at a glance who's planning to do what, so we all have a better idea of what to expect.

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